The Vibrant Health Podcast: Special Episode – California Bill SB277 & Your Health Freedom

by lydia on May 21, 2015

Health Freedom/Right To Consent

Today’s podcast will be addressing a topic that veers from our typical one, and veers off a bit into an issue that is currently in front of us and extremely important.

Before you listen, please understand this episode is not about whether you should or should not vaccinate. It is not a pro vs. anti vaccination debate or discussion. Whether you choose to vaccinate or not is a very personal choice and it’s topic I usually steer clear of because it’ a very touchy subject.

However, this podcast came about because I felt it was important to speak up about the issues surrounding the current bill in California to essentially make vaccinations mandatory and remove all exemptions other than a medical exemption (as well as other issues). To me this is a very serious matter because it is entirely unconstitutional and it threatens each and every one of our health freedoms.

Since I am passionate about being informed and having the right to choose this topic needs to be talked about. It’s extremely alarming to me that we are even heading down this potential path in our nation. Please listen with an open mind.

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Jessica Espinoza: Hi, everyone and welcome to a special episode of the Vibrant Health Podcast. We’re actually doing an extra episode this week because we have something really important and very timely that we want to discuss with you.
Today, we want to talk about what’s going on in California regarding health freedom and the vaccination bill SB277. You probably have seen this either on the news or on Facebook. It’s very active right now. It’s bringing a lot of people out. There’s a lot of discussion. So we wanted to talk about this today.
But before we dive in, we want to preface this by saying that this is not a pro versus anti-vaccine debate. This is a personal health freedom debate/discussion, so we ask that you really look at the core issue here and try to move away from the fact that it is dealing with vaccines.
This is a personal health freedom debate and the government in no way has any right to mandate any form of medical treatment to anyone no matter what it is. This is an exceptionally slippery slope that we’re on. If the government gets this kind of control, then none of our freedoms are safe.
We understand that this is a highly sensitive subject. We’re not here to tell you what to do regarding vaccines. That’s a very personal decision that only you can make for you and your family. So we’re not here to tell you to be pro-vaccine or to be anti-vaccine. We don’t want to talk about that. We want to move past the vaccine part of this issue and really understand the core problem we are facing as a nation.
Like I said, this is an issue of health freedom that can and will have catastrophic consequences on all of us and each state may start to face similar issues in the near future if you’re not already facing issues like this already. Some states already are.
So let’s go ahead and get started. Today, we’re actually joined by a special guest, Jessica Aveni who is a former registered nurse and she’s been very active in California in fighting SB277 as well as helping create awareness regarding the freedom issue surrounding this bill.
So welcome, Jessica. I’m so glad that you could join us today. Would you like to give our listeners a little background on you and introduce yourself?

Jessica Aveni: Sure! Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate having this opportunity to share what’s going on in California.
As Lydia said, my name is Jessica. I am a former registered nurse. I spent about 10 years doing hospice and oncology work. I am now a mother and a clinical herbalist.
I got involved in what’s going on here in California because as a healthcare professional, I’m very concerned when I see the possibility of the government stepping in taking away the right to informed consent. I think that that is very, very much an intrusion and as was mentioned, a very slippery slope that we are headed down.

Jessica Espinoza: Lydia, do you want to go ahead and jump in a little bit?

Lydia: Thanks, Jessica so much for stopping in today and sharing with us. I think that this is a very important issue. And as health educators and as a health practitioner even, I find that it’s an important issue to discuss because a lot of people may or may not have the time or have really delved into understanding what’s going on and how it may affect them. Just because it’s currently in California doesn’t mean it’s not going to affect them. In fact, we have other states going through similar situations.
But before we get into any of that, I feel like we should lay further groundwork as to what this can really mean for people and for health freedom across the nation. Let’s just talk a little bit about this without this becoming an issue to people about their own choice. It certainly is not. Like Jessica said earlier, we’re not here to make anyone feel guilty or bad for their choices, but we do have to realize that we should have a choice and everyone will have differences in their opinion as to what’s best for their family.
The truth is vaccines are not 100% safe across the board and the CDC does say so in their website. So with that in mind, some parents may chose to look into this further and make a decision that’s not according to what this bill is trying to mandate.
So we want to talk a little bit more about why this is a big deal and what we can do about it. Jessica has been really involved in California up front and center, so she’s got a bit of a different perspective on all of these that I feel that we can all benefit from hearing.

Jessica Aveni: Well, I am working with a group called People for Informed Consent. We are concerned because that right is now being threatened.
The American Medical Association states that “the physician has an ethical obligation to help the patient make choices from among the therapeutic alternatives consistent with good medical practice. Informed consent is a basic policy, ethic and law that a physician must honor.” That’s stated in the American Medical Association.
If SB277 passes, it will be a direct violation of the American Medical Association. Even physicians and nurses have the right to decline a medical procedure – and that would include vaccinations, vaccinations are considered a medical procedure. So even a doctor and nurse has the right to decline that. But they are trying to take that right away from parents to be able to make that decision with their children. That is extremely concerning to me as a nurse and as a parent.
Physicians and nurses are set in place to help people make an informed decision, an informed choice. So that is one of my biggest concerns as I’m fighting this. Indeed, it is a slippery slope. And there is no crisis right now that would indicate having that choice being taken away. There’s no immediate crisis. Vaccination rates are actually at an all-time high in California. So that is a big concern I have right now.

Lydia: I think that’s a great little introduction to help people understand that, again, like I said in my introduction, we have to move past the vaccination issue here. I know the topic of vaccination brings out people on all spectrums, both sides of the camp whether you’re pro or you’re anti or you’re undecided. It really can be a heated discussion.
But I think that we have to get to the core of the message and understand how this could affect us long-term. If the government can mandate one type of medical procedure for everyone, then how can that affect us long-term in our ability to choose? We all have the right to chose what we put in our body and the medical procedures that we have access to.
So I think it’s important for people to understand those core issues.
Jessica Aveni: I totally agree with you. I don’t know if many of you have seen what’s been going on with Robert Kennedy Jr. He has been stepping out in a very courageous way to confront not only that issue, informed consent, but he has also been bringing to light and helping people to see that right now, can our government have some issues that really need to be corrected and have attention brought to.
That would be the fact that pharmaceutical companies right now cannot be sued for any vaccine damages or injury. They can be sued for whatever other drugs they’re making, but when it comes to vaccines, in 1986, our government made a law that said that vaccine companies cannot be sued, which means that there’s now no accountability for them to create safe and effective vaccination.
I also don’t know if many of our listeners are aware that vaccines provide the largest profit margin for pharmaceutical companies. After the law was put into place in 1986, the list of vaccines that the CDC now has and recommend has skyrocketed. Just since the year 2000, the number of vaccinations that children get has more than doubled. Children who are 18, if they current CDC schedule, will be getting somewhere in the ballpark of 69 vaccinations by the time that they reach the age of 18.
People need to be aware of this. And so what Robert Kennedy Jr. has been helping us do is helping people see that there are really some concerns that I think we, as parents, need to address and our government certainly needs to address in terms of holding pharmaceutical companies accountable for the kinds of vaccinations that they are making.

Lydia: Yeah, it’s very important that we look at it in this light because I don’t think that the general public understands that vaccine harm and injury is very real for one thing. I mean, it happens. There are plenty of people out there who have experienced this.
So with that in mind, where there’s a risk, even though it’s seemingly dismissed by the higher-ups unfortunately, where there’s a risk, we really need to be able to have a choice. It’s really important to not say, “Well, this is good for everyone.” Well no, it’s not because the testimonies are out there that it has, indeed, harmed people.

Jessica Aveni: I agree with you a hundred percent on that. And that is one of my concerns as a nurse. I have since left practicing as a nurse. And through some health issues of my own, I am now working in a more holistic practice. A large concern that I have looking back is that allopathic medicine or conventional medicine really does not address people as an individual. It’s really a one-size-fits-all mentality and approach. We are finding more and more that that is not working for people. People need individualized care. If this passes, you are, again, putting a one-site-fits-all approach on children.
The concern that I have as well is that you talked about the injuries. And yes, I agree, where there is risk, there must be choice. And there is risk. There is vast underreporting of vaccine adverse events. The FDA said that as few as 1% of serious adverse reactions are reported and the CDC thinks that only about 10% are reported. And if that is true, we have already paid out $3.1 billion for vaccine injuries and death. And if we are only reporting between 1% and 10%, that is just staggering how many people are suffering from vaccine injuries and vaccine deaths.
Again, that is why we have informed consent in allopathic medicine because with every procedure, there is going to be a risk. So vaccines, yes, there are going to be a risk for those. People need to be aware of that and not coerced or forced into something that they may not feel comfortable doing.

Jessica Espinoza: Right! And we’d typically aren’t weighing this when we’re in the doctor’s office. A lot of parents are getting vaccinations because it’s protocol, it’s what you do when you go to the doctor.
And quite frankly, parents don’t always have all the time in the world to research this stuff. They trust their doctors know and it’s kind of generally how it happens. I’m not saying it is across the board. Some people do plenty of research because they do that and that’s important to them and some people don’t.
So you’re not going to hear this being spoken about in a public manner other than the people who don’t have a vested interest at least in the money part. I mean, I don’t know, that’s just me talking there. But I’m glad that you’re sharing this from a nurse’s perspective because I don’t think it’s a common conversation that’s heard generally.
Jessica Aveni: Yeah, and I think even among nurses, you don’t have time when you’re practicing as a nurse even to go back and to research. You’re just doing what you’ve been told and what you’ve been taught. I have had the time because it’s been a necessity to go in and really dig deep and start to research. What I’m pulling up is extremely concerning to me. I’m pulling up information that says as an industrialized nation, America gives the most vaccines of any control in the world. We give [inaudible 00:14:29].
Yet when you look at our infant mortality rate, which is something that measures the overall health of the country, health and well-being, our infant mortality rate is number 34. We are at the bottom of all industrialized nations. Cuba, Bosnia, those countries are above us. I’m looking at epidemic rates of neurological disease, autoimmune disorders, allergies, asthma.
No one can tell us why this is happening, yet if you look at numbers and look at how they correlate to the increase of vaccines that we do, there is some correlation for some of this and this needs to be studied.
But the CDC has not studied the effects of giving their recommend schedule to children. There has never been a study. There has never been a safety study done on that. And as a nurse, that highly concerns me.
Lydia: So I guess a question I have and I think is important for us to understand as a population since we’re the ones that are receiving this current potential mandate here, is this current vaccination schedule really studied well and proven to be extremely safe, 100% safe namely in that it’s such a large amount of vaccinations under the age of 18, but also, a lot of them are given at such a young age and many in one fell swoop.
I know that a child’s immune system isn’t developed until a certain age. And so that’s not something we’re taking into consideration. So these are concerns, valid concerns that we, as parents, have, as health educators have and would like for more people to understand so that they can also make decisions. And here we are, about to get that taken away from us. So let’s talk about that a little bit.

Jessica Aveni: Sure! And that’s a concern that I have too as a parent and as a nurse. I am not against vaccinations. In some and many circumstances, they are a good thing. But I think a lot of us, as we started to dig and really think and critically and ask questions as this potential mandate is coming at us, it’s really opened our eyes to, “Hey, wait a second! The current schedule is a lot of vaccines and a lot of vaccines are given under the age of one.
We give more vaccines under in the age of one than any other industrialized nation and we have a very poor infant mortality rate. We need to be looking at if there’s a correlation between that. To my knowledge, I don’t know that the CDC has really looked into if there is a correlation. And if you look at the nations who have better infant mortality rates than we do, they’re giving far fewer vaccinations to their children under the age of one. And indeed, the top nations, their schedule is much, much shorter than ours.
And again, we give the most vaccines in the world. And unfortunately, it looks very much that there is a lot of corruption between our government and the pharmaceutical companies. There’s a lot of conflict of interest going on. We need to have guidelines or things in place before we can even start talking of mandating vaccines.
And that is what Robert Kennedy Jr. has been trying to bring to light as he has gone from state to state talking to different representatives and different individuals. He has been bringing up the shortcomings that we are seeing. Kennedy says himself that the CDC – he was interviewed by Bill Maher on HBO. He says that there is a cesspool of corruption going on here that has completely taken over the vaccine industry.
So I think something that once started with good intentions and something to really help people has now turned into something that is very corrupt. And that makes sense. They’re getting very large profit margins on their vaccines. We need to have some protection set in place and they need to be held accountable for creating safe vaccines.

Jessica Espinoza: Yeah, definitely.

Lydia: Can you talk a little bit about some of what we are seeing is a problem, some of the vaccine injuries, some of the potential risks in our current health?

Jessica Aveni: There’s been a lot of debate over the research that has been done. And frankly, I just stay out of that and just look at the big picture of the potential side effects and the big picture of the epidemic rates of things like allergies, asthma, cancer, neurological disease, autoimmune issues. These were not issues when our generation were children and we were getting a much smaller schedule of vaccines. We had to clean 12 to 20 doses in the ‘70s and ‘80s. And that, like I said, has skyrocketed to in the ballpark of 69.
There’s not enough research being done right now. There’s not the kind of studies that I, as a parent, would like to see. I don’t agree that they should mandating something that is not, number one, 100% safe, but also, has not been studied. They need to have more studies done of the current schedule.
And if you look at the vaccine inserts, probably those parents going to get vaccines these days are just getting their vaccines. They’re not looking at the long list of contraindications or precautions with getting these different vaccinations.
These can include anything from Guillain Barre, you can have seizure disorders, chronic gastrointestinal disease, altered immune competence. I’m just reading off of the list right now that is on the CDC website listing all the many reactions that you can have.
Right here, they are talking about elevated or extremely high temperatures, seizures within three days, persistence inconsolable crying, for instance, after getting DPT and DTAP, which could indicate even worse problems.
I’m not going to read the whole list here, but there are a lot of problems that can happen, which is why, as I’ve said before, the AMA lays out clearly that you need to have informed consent before you agree to have a medical procedure done.

Lydia: Tell our readers where they can find the vaccine schedule, where they can find the actual ingredients on the vaccinations that they’re being recommended to give their kid.
Honestly, when I was just first having kids, with my first son, I wasn’t prepared for any of it. Once he was almost a year old, I started doing more research. But at first, I wasn’t prepared. I didn’t realize there was going to be so much that I needed to look into. And I think that’s probably more common.

Jessica Aveni: Right. Well, where they can go, they can simply go to That will pull up the current immunization schedule. You can pull up the birth to 18 years, you can pull up catch-up versions. The adult version is there as well. I’m not sure if people are aware we are now fighting another bill that would mandate that all daycare and preschool teachers receive the full adult CDC schedule. So we’re also already dealing with adults being forced into vaccinations as well.
So you can pull up all the information that you need to look at right there on the CDC.
Jessica Espinoza: The inserts, are they in the CDC website too. I think that’s one thing that in my past, I’ve done a lot of vaccine research for my former job and I have read some of the vaccine inserts. I don’t think that parents have – I mean, when is the last time you’ve gone to a doctor and they handed you, “Oh, here’s the insert for the vaccine that we’re going to give you” and that you’ve actually sat there and read it. I mean, that just doesn’t happen. So if parents or adults want to look at the actual insert, can they find those in the CDC website or is there another site where they can find those?

Jessica Aveni: It is on the CDC website. There is a link to possible side effects from vaccination. When you’re looking at the page with the immune schedules for infants and children, up in the right-hand corner, there’s a search button. If you type in ‘vaccine side effects’, it will then pull up a number of different pages. They have a list for possible side effects from vaccine listed. Here, they have the DTAP. They list mild problems, moderate problems and severe problems.
I want to reiterate to people that these numbers are vastly under-reported and that is very concerning to me as a nurse and as a parent. So even though they may have numbers listed in here, 1/1000 or 1/1400, those numbers are not really reflecting what’s truly happening in our population.
And a lot of the parents too are fighting against this bill here in California. We’re not anti-vaccines, but we’re concerned and we want people to be informed. A lot of parents do vaccinate their children. And sadly, a lot of the parents who are fighting have children who have been injured from these vaccines and don’t want to be forced to give them either to siblings or forced a child to get more.
I think one of the biggest misconceptions out there (and unfortunately, Senator Pan has not been very above board with this issue) is that he’s simply saying, “Oh, for children who need a medical exemption, just go and get him one.” Well, it’s not easy to get a medical exemption.
One of my dear friends who’s fighting this right now, her child had a documented vaccine injury and it took her two years to get a medical exemption for her child. There are very, very strict guidelines from the CDC for what will qualify for medical exemption.

Jessica Espinoza: Yeah.
Jessica Aveni: So that is very concerning. You can have a seizure reaction to a vaccine, but still be forced to get the other vaccine. And that concerns a lot of parent. And when you start getting the government involved and vaccines mandated and this one-size-fits-all approach, you take out the individualized care that each child needs.
Maybe one child can handle 69 doses of vaccine, but another child may not be able to do that. So that is extremely concerning. It’s a myth that it’s easy to get a medical exemption because it is not. It is very difficult.

Lydia: Yeah, definitely. You’re raising an alarm for me when you talk about this because I don’t really want the government dictating what medical procedures my child has and then saying, my only out is a medical exemption. Well, I’ve gone to my doctors and for a while, I had to go to doctors that were given to me because I was on the state insurance.

Jessica Aveni: Right!

Lydia: So I didn’t really have very many choices to choose my own doctor. Do you see what I’m saying? And then the doctors I would go to, I had a very difficult time getting them to listen to what I wanted for my child. I didn’t really have as many options as I would’ve liked as the parent of the child.
That was very challenging. Many times when I wanted my child to be looked at in a different way – and this has nothing to do with vaccination, this is just in general. You know what I mean? And so since the vaccination is a part of the protocol that you’ll typically get with your doctor, it’s like you were saying earlier, there’s no individualized care. It’s just a system.
Jessica Aveni: Yes, very much so.

Lydia: That troubles me because when I go to my doctors, I want them to see me and I want them to see my child. I don’t want them to say, “Well, this is what we do.” “Well no, that’s not what I want you to do. This is what I need you to do. I’m the patient.” You know what I mean?
It’s like when I go to a restaurant, I want them to serve me. I don’t want them to say, “Well, no. We’re not going to do what you want.” I’m the ‘customer’.

Jessica Aveni: I was mentioning how I, as a nurse, would not go back to allopathic medicine anymore because I’m concerned about the one-size-fits-all approach. After going through some of my own health issues and starting first with allopathic medicine and not being looked at as an individual, it finally took going to holistic practitioners for me to heal.
I’m concerned that as we look to mandate things on our children, that that is going to be the approach. I am hopeful that allopathic medicine will start taking more of a integrative position, but I have not seen that happen yet and that is a concern that I have as a nurse and as a parent.

Jessica Espinoza: One thing that popped into my head when you were talking a little bit earlier about the medical exemption, if this passes, can you give us kind of an overview of what this really means for a parent. What would a day in the life be of somebody in California, a parent in California if this law passed?

Jessica Aveni: Okay. Well, right now, as the bill stands (and things are kind of changing very fast, this bill has been shoved through the senate unfortunately), right now, if the parent chooses not to vaccinate their child according to the rules that SB277 lays out, then they will be forced to home school their child. They will not be allowed to go to private school. They will not be allowed to go to public school.
There is a question as to what kind of home schooling settings are going to be allowed. At first, Senator Pan said only each family must home school alone. There can be no mixing with even other home school families. I believe that’s been slightly modified. But as of now, that is where the bill stands. There will be no grandfathering in of children who are not up-to-date on schedule.
For children who do have to “get caught up,” there is a recommended catch-up schedule. I believe Dr. Rob Sears had posted it on his website and it is appalling to me, the amount of vaccines that they would try to put into a child within a few months to a year.
I can’t say for sure because I don’t have the information in front of me, but I believe it’s about 15 doses of vaccine that they would need to get caught up.

Lydia: So you’re saying they don’t give you an opportunity to do it slowly or any kind of phases. It’s like…
Jessica Aveni: No, by the time the child reaches first grade, I believe it is, because here, right now, we do not have to enroll your child in kindergarten. So if someone has a child who is going into first grade in September. Unfortunately, the designers of these bills have not really thought things through well.
No one really knows the answers to all these questions. “How will my child get caught up? How fast will he need to get caught up?” But as the bill stands right now, it looks like they would need to get caught up immediately because they have to have certain vaccines by the time they go to school. And if they aren’t in school, they’re considered [inaudible 00:30:30].
So parents are completely locked into either going to jail for not sending their kids to school or high dosing their kids with a lot of vaccines.

Lydia: Wow!

Jessica Espinoza: It’s just really scary for me. So you’re saying if I’m a parent and I chose not to follow the vaccine schedule that’s been outlined, then my only option is to home school. But what if I’m a single parent or I’m part of a two parent family who both of us have to work and I can’t home school? I have no other choice, but to follow the vaccination schedule and put my kid in public school. That’s it? We really have two choices? Wow! That’s terrifying.

Jessica Aveni: Let me just highlight that. Senator Pan introduced the bill called AD2109 last year. That was put into place. It was put in place about a year ago. He was an assembly member when he did that. We have him on videos stating that when he created this bill called 2109, which is a bill that in order to do an exemption, you now need to get a signature from a physician. That used to not be the case. That is the case now You have to go to a physician and get a signature.
He said specifically when he created that bill as he was testifying in the senate that he was not thinking to take away [inaudible 00:31:50] rights at all. And here he comes less than a year later with this bill doing exactly what he said he was not trying to do.
And the point that a lot of us had been trying to make to our legislators, in fact, AD2109 is doing the work that it was intended to do. Personal belief exemption has dropped 20% within this year. That is a huge, huge number of people who have not done a personal belief exemption. The rates are incredibly small now and the vaccination rates are at an all-time high. There’s no reason for another bill to be put into place right now. So logically, it does not make sense what they are trying to do.
Lydia: At least in terms of the benefit of the people or the mass population here.
Jessica Aveni: Correct, correct.
Lydia: It doesn’t seem to benefit us in any way. How does this benefit everyone in America? How does it benefit us?
Jessica Aveni: And I would stand behind you 100% on that. There is no good reason right now for this kind of government intrusion into a parent’s right and into constitutional rights. All of these is violating a lot of California constitutional rights.
Religious rights are being taken away. Some people have a religious belief that would exempt them from certain vaccines. I’m not going to get into the issue, but there is a [inaudible 00:33:12] in some of these vaccines and that is the problem for people.
Religious rights has not been taken away like this before. So there are a lot of different rights that are being violated in health freedom being taken away.

Lydia: Yeah. And it’s concerning to me in general especially in light of the state of our nation’s health what’s next. This is going to go down it looks like we don’t know exactly, but it’s coming close. So what’s next? What health freedom are they going to take away next?
And so I ask everyone out there listening to think about it in terms of that. If this isn’t touching you right now specifically – I mean, I don’t…

Jessica Aveni: Well, it will. I do believe it will because there’s already been a bill introduced on the federal level now. So there’s been a senator in the state of Florida who has now introduced a bill that would require state who need to get funding to run their public schools that they would have to have a forced [inaudible 00:34:14] in place.
So this is already happening. And like I said, we’re fighting a number of other bills. We’re fighting a bill that would allow your optometrist to give you your vaccine. We’re fighting that would force daycare workers and preschool workers to get the complete CDC schedule of vaccinations. So this is going to start touching a lot more people.

Jessica Espinoza: Yeah, the scope of this is huge. Once you really stop to understand what this could do to our nation as a whole, my mind is just blown right now as far as getting into this.
I know that we actually need to wrap up this episode, so we don’t completely overwhelm people, we could probably talk all day about this. But I’d love it if you could tell people where they can find more information. If they want to do more research on this, if they want to really understand what’s going because this affect everybody.
Anybody that’s listening right now, I want you to understand that this affects everyone, not only you as a parent, but your potential health freedom in the future. It affects all of us who have chosen to become wellness educators as a career.
I mean, myself, I’m a real food wellness educator. I try to help people live healthier lives through diet and things like that. It really could potentially affect me in the future and my livelihood, not only my decisions as a parent too. Whenever my husband and I decide to start a family, it’s going to affect that.
It really has a wide scope of issues that it could bring up with health in this nation on a whole, not just with vaccination.
So I encourage people to really do some research and look at this. If your state is not already dealing with issues like this, it’s probably in the works. So be prepared for something like this.
So Jessica, can you give us some information where people can learn more, what they can do to become involved and that kind of stuff?

Jessica Aveni: Sure. I want to make clear that as I look at the picture of our country, the overall health of our country has not improved. If anything, it’s declining. And yet, we have continued to give more and more and more vaccines. So I would strongly encourage parents and individuals to do some research. Look on the CDC website and read through the list of ingredients for vaccine side effects, adverse reactions. You can do that going straight to the CDC website.
If you’d like to learn more about what’s happening here in California (and we also just provide a lot of other general good information), you can look at the website called Your Family, Your Choice. We have a lot of really great information on there.
And then I’m personally working with a group called People for Informed Consent. You can find us on Facebook. We post a lot of really great information there if you want to look at that. We’re a branch of the California Coalition for Health Choice.
Again, Your Family, Your Choice is a great place to go. It’s
Jessica Espinoza: Awesome! And we will include links to all of these in the blog post. So if you’re listening to this podcast on either myself or Lydia’s website, then the links are going to be probably right above or right below the podcast where you’re listening to it. So you could just click on them and go straight to these sites to find more information.
Tons of stuff on Facebook. I mean, I really doubt that anybody listening to this has not heard of it at least in passing. I just encourage people to really pay attention because this has some pretty drastic effects on the health freedom on this country long-term, not just with vaccinations.
I can’t stress that enough. We need to move pass the vaccination issue with this and really look at the scope of what could happen to the nation over the next 10, 15, 20 years if this does pass. So that’s where I’m at. Vaccines are just such a personal decision for everybody.
Lydia, did you have anything else that you wanted to discuss?

Lydia: No, not at this time. I think we’ve talked about the main stuff I think. Thank you so much, Jessica for taking some time out to just hash it out with us a bit. Hopefully, this will be eye-opening or helpful in some way to our listeners. And hopefully, the rest of you listening may dig into it a bit more and share with others as well.

Jessica Espinoza: Awesome! Yes, thank you for being here with us, Jessica. We’re going to go ahead and wrap up this episode. We’ll be back next Tuesday on our regular schedule with some information. I think next week we’re talking about summer skin care and that kind of stuff since summer is right around the corner and people are going to be spending a lot more time outside. So we’re going to be talking about that.
Thanks for tuning in today. We will talk to you guys again next week.

Lydia: Thank you. Thanks for listening.


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